I would like to set a deadline for myself for all of you. I solemnly swear that by the end of the mercannum, I will have at least resurrected the Indoles Carta and will be at that point well on the way or solving our host's backup upload problem. But my progress on this will need to wait until my vpn is restored, in a bit over a week's time.

I'm personally not in favor of just restoring the old Indoles Carta and replacing it with what we have now. Different people, different times.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

Well, the current one is essentially just a smaller version of the original, not different. And it assumes the traditions of the original. And the original is still in effect in spirit. It would take legal action to strike down the original, so I disagree with you. But ultimately such a topic is up the to extensive debate, so let's decide when we pull it back up.

Remember, a constitution is different from laws. I recall a few mercannum ago this clarification was discussed as well, with Nick doing good work to flesh things out. Constitutions are founding principles that are subject to less radical change, and are not subject to the same amendment procedures as every day laws. To just make parochial edits to the constitution from legislation, such as is being suggested, blurs the important distinction between laws and constitution.

I would say we should not let any parts from the original Indoles Carta override current practices, as they have been embraced and used by the community for over a year; replacing them would needlessly disrupt these practices.

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Ulrik Gunnarson
Duke of the Gathered Races of Hermertia Homeland (GRHH)
The Chairman of the GRHH Co.

Agreed, but I don't see any particular modern practices that override the old one. There would need to be an exercise to massage the two together, for sure.

I agree with Chairmain here, but we should also use the older version as inspiration for future parts of the current one.





Building off of the idea of the HRE (Holy Roman Empire) which used prince-electors and an electoral college to elect the Holy Roman Emperor, perhaps we should hold elections that elect electors who vote for the emperor, who must possess a duchy or kingdom. I'm agreeing with the inclusion of Dukes as someone else had said, we have limited Kings. Unless we see an influx of kingdom requests, it will be the eventual same people becoming Emperor over and over. The elections to elect the electors (jesus, alot of elects here) is open to all members of the empire, Vassals (serfs) included. Though the ones being elected must be actual nobility, so count and higher.

In order to give people a fair chance perhaps we should ban consecutive terms for electors unless we have a shortage of people running for electors. As for the electors they would vote for the Emperor out of the pool of people running for Emperor. The candidate with the most votes would obviously become Emperor.

I opted to include many elections so that Vassals and Counts still have a role in the process of electing the Emperor, as limiting it to Dukes and Kings would be a bit unfair considering the Council of the Crowned is exclusive to Kings, as well as parliament being exclusive to Dukes and Kings as well. I'm open to suggestions/questions.

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Hasan 'Darius V' Stark

Protector of the Vahnic Exploration Company
Ilkhan of Greater Karastan-Laghima

So, going off the Regent's post, the original Indoles Carta has always been in effect. Some of the newer laws will surely need to be included within it now, but it has always applied. We've been in a bit of a weird phase since we didn't fully have access to it, so it'll be great to get it up again.

In regard to Emperor elections, it was tentatively decided a long time ago that Kings would be the only ones up for election. Now, I think the solution to the same kings being elected is to merely elect more deserving kings to the council. There are a few people who certainly deserve it. Traditionally, Kings have been the longest active members of the server, which allows them to have observed the many phases this world has gone through. I believe they are the most qualified to be Emperor. Our world doesn't need to be historically accurate by any means. In fact, I think attempting to do so holds us back.

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Joren

of River's End

More Kings would certainly serve the purpose for sure - my concerns with limiting were only due to activity, and many of the Kings have been playing so long that they are far beyond that initially flurry of activity that most of us experience when first joining. That, and it's such a small pool of people that it would obviously repeat every 2-3 years in rotation.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

I totally agree. With time, as more kings are added to the Council, we won't have to worry too much about the position of Emperor being held "on rotation".

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Ulrik Gunnarson
Duke of the Gathered Races of Hermertia Homeland (GRHH)
The Chairman of the GRHH Co.